|Pliant talk forum
French Pliantdocs en français
I have upload a part of the french documentation available when turning to french
the language option of your browser.
J'ai téléchargé une partie de la documentation trduite en Fançais.
Pour y avoir accès choisir fr dans les préférences de language de votre butineur.
|Message posted by michel on 2003/01/06 17:39:02
|Vous tous qui fréquentez à la foi Pliant et la langue française,
vos remarques, critiques et corrections sont les bienvenues.
|Message posted by hubert.tonneau on 2003/01/06 18:36:36
|Just a fiew words about my lack of activity related to the current Pliant
Basically, I've first introduced Pliant as a new language, because from the
technical point of view, this strong language is the required foundation for
building consistent applications.
On the other hand, I now understand that introducing Pliant as a language
is a mistake. Basically, one needs many years of intensive programming, and
write quite a fiew applications, what very fiew people have truely achieved,
in order to understand what's really important in a language.
So basically any attempt to introduce Pliant as a language will fail because
of stupid comparisons that end to random conclusions.
So, the new target for me is to turn Pliant environment to a set of ready
to use applications, that let you slowly grow as a programmer. Also this takes
time because as a very experimented programmer I tend to not give enough
attention to the ennoying small problems people have to face at the beginning.
Basically, there could be two entry points here:
Either build a nice Windows installation tool that will satisfy 99% of users,
and drop other environment. Also here there is a problem: I know that it would
be the most straight forward direction to some success, but I also know that
the ground would desapear under my feets at some point, just like it does for
anybody trying to push too far the Windows environment, and even more to
people writing more and more complex applications over Office (tm).
So the other solution that I plan to achieve this year is to provide a
straight forward to use, yet very well controled environment so that users
can start playing after only a fiew seconds, but always over a sane environment.
This is what I plan to provide this year through a bootable FullPliant CD
that will require a fairly standard computer (PC with IDE disk and VESA 2
graphic card) but will run right from the CD, storing it's files in a
/fullpliant/ directory in your existing first disk partition, without
disturbing the existing operating system on the machine.
So, back to the documentation, I don't know exactly what should be done on
the short run since all other (existing) ways to run Pliant will remain
because they are required for true live applications, but will be dedicated
to advanced brave users.
|Message posted by marcus on 2003/01/11 22:49:42
|The documentation consists of four fronts: the documentation of the Pliant language, the documentation of the Pliant Internet suite, the documentation of
the Fullpliant OS, and the documentation Pliant HowTos.
The first front is where I have spent most of my free time during last summer.
Then things became hectic and I had to just touch here and there with
minor fixes spot by our contributors. This part of the documentation is an
Herculean, sometimes boring, and very time consuming task. And still we are far
from completing the task.
Studies have shown that printed paper is still the preferred medium for learning.
It is time to start thinking about writing a Pliant book which introduces the
Pliant triad to the masses (language, internet suite, and OS).
In the second front thinks are not as incomplete as in the language front.
The third front, documentation of the Fullpliant OS, is as pristine as when Hubert first posted it. I could not get the big picture of the thing based
on the available doc. It is somewhat cryptic. Hence I decided to wait until I
myself got a better hold on the language itself (to work on the first front).
I fully support Hubert's idea of the bootable FullPliant CD. With the condition
that he himself work a bit more on the current fullpliant documentation; decrypting it. So that one with some basic academic knowledge of the field
can expand on it. Eventually, we can actually put this CD in the back cover of
the book :-)
|Message posted by cb4 on 2003/01/12 01:59:49
|(This message is in response to Hubert's previous post in this thread. I
apologize if it's too heavy and philosophical for some tastes.)
I agree that applications, not technical specifications and explanations, are the
best way to get Pliant noticed. And I want to go further and say that I think that
a wonderful way to get people interested in Pliant's HTTP server would be to offer
a truly powerful .page style that is sophisticated and flexible enough for
beginning (and, hopefully, advanced) programmers to design Web sites exactly
according to their own creative inclinations. HTML code is ugly and uninspiring,
particularly to beginners. It seems to me that a powerful .page style would be
a logical goal of the "smooth path to programming" philosophy.
I say it would seem like a logical goal because the current default style, while
admirable from a technical point of view, is too inflexible and plain to stir
the creative energies of most people. And stirring creative energies is the
only way Pliant will ever catch on in this world. A sophisticated .page style
would surely help Pliant be more effective in marketing itself in a world too
dull-minded to appreciate its inner beauty. The very face of Pliant, the first
thing people see, is the pliant.cx Web site with its plain (although rather
elegant) default style! I really believe that a facelift via the .page format
would do Pliant a world of good.
I'm not talking about mere eye-candy. I'm talking about realizing that it's
completely natural and *fulfilling* to love a woman's body *as well as* her mind.
In order for anything in this universe to last, it has to maintain a balance
of energies. A great deal of energy has been flowing toward Pliant's inner
self, but the energy isn't circulating back to her skin in a balanced way, and
she appears somewhat cold and unattractive at first sight. Right or wrong,
people tend not to look deeply. But even apart from what does or does not grab
people's attention, it's still a fact that seriousness *ought* to be balanced
with fun and sexiness. It's just *better* that way. This is not to say that
sexiness is all about appearance. It's also about fun *activity*, and that's
why the "ready to use applications, that let you slowly grow as a programmer"
are extremely desirable. But those applications shouldn't needlessly suffer
from too plain an appearance or from an unintuitive interface (e.g., the current
As you've now realized, primarily targeting the intellect of more advanced
programmers isn't the best approach to making Pliant popular. Many programmers'
intellects are already old and conditioned, leading to "stupid comparisons that
end to random conclusions". You're right to target fresh minds. Fortunately,
even advanced programmers have a fresh side -- it's just not their intellectual
side. Because of dull-mindedness, you have to target people's sense of vitality
and creativity more directly, and not go through their intellect, with all its
smoke. It's a better approach to think of your target audience more as
fun-loving children and teenagers than as serious university students or
veteran programmers, although we certainly hope children will eventually become
serious and mature also -- but in a beautiful *balance* with their fun-loving
I can't cheer you on enough regarding your attempts to help beginners gradually
learn to program. I hope that you place your goals very high in this regard and
that you will set your mind to making Pliant become the obvious choice for
schools teaching beginning programming. *That*, indeed, would really be
targeting beginners and avoiding the problem of "stupid comparisons" -- if you
can just convince the teachers! But Pliant's interface is of critical
importance. For this reason the Pliant project would do very well to create a
powerful .page style that would inspire beginners around the world to dive into
the fun and rewarding task of creating their very own "awesome" Web sites.
In this way you'll be providing beginners a rock-solid entrance into the world
of programming, and they, in turn, will gradually repay the Pliant project with
much needed boosts in vitality.
|Message posted by hubert.tonneau on 2003/01/12 23:12:13
|The powerfull style for HTTP server might come at some point, but we don't have
yet all the technical foundation for it.
I first have to introduce server built images with browser events properly
sent back. Should be available in a fiew weeks, also I still have to face
then we can start speaking about nice looking again.